Myth Buster: Speed

[Backburner]

Without a doubt, Speed is the most important attribute in Haypi for all high level players, it allows cats get first strike in battle against slower opponents; cavs to quickly close down a target; faster travel across the world map and ensure a clean battle with minimal losses.

However due to these distinct advantages of speed, I think there are alot of people who gets caught up in the hype and put blind faith into it. I see all the time on various world chats, when someone ask what stat is best to put your points in, there is a flood of people (alot of them are newbies themselves) giving out a simple "all into speed" answer. I understand that they have the best of intentions but this can be quite misleading or even disastrous for a new player who doesn't have an in-depth understanding of the Haypi battle system.

I believe this blind faith on Speed by the masses are perhaps driven by experienced high level players who sworn by Speed, while this is true in one sense, Speed isn't for everyone. Unless you're at a high level with enough attribute points to take full advantage of high speed, then sometimes going all Speed isn't the most ideal choice.

If you are low in level (level 13 and under), chances are the best combination for your army is the inf/cats setup, this is the most efficient setup for fort farming and the easiest to command in battle. Cats who gets a first strik in battle is a great advantage for anyone, but it is certainly not something you can put your complete faith in at low level. When you are battling an opponent of similar level with a similar army, the player who goes all speed will be beaten by someone who goes all attack, or all defense, or a balanced stat.

Example scenario:

2 level 10 players, Player A with all Speed at 82, Player B with all Attack at 100 Attack and 2 more points to put in anything else. Both have mid level equipment that gives between 10-15 points boost for every stats and mid level techs for both, (assuming similar level range tech)

Player A is attacking with 3000/0/100/1000
Player B is defending with 2000/150/0/1000
Defense: 5 low level traps

Forget the supporting army, the true battle is fought between cats (some experienced generals may try to pull some moves with the other units but we won't worry about that here).

Turn 1:
Player A advance cats, hold inf and arch
Player B advance cats, hold inf and cav

Turn 2:
Player A advance cats,
Player B advance cats,
Player A's 1000 cats makes first strike takes out roughly 450 enemy cats, Player B's 550 remaining cats retaliation attack, destroy 500 cats.
Player B's 550 cats makes attack, destroy remaining 500 cats.

After turn 2,
Player A have 3000/0/100/0 remaining
Player B have 2000/150/0/550 remaining. It is clear that Player B will be the eventual winner. His cats will have the abiilty to take out close to 1500 inf in one turn, if Player A times his advance he may be able to land one more attack on Player B's cats with his archers, but the most 100 archers can take out in this instance is 10 cats before getting wiped out by retaliation attack.

Note: This is an extremely rough simulation and the figure will vary depends on the setup of the individual player.

The retaliation attack is often something most beginners do not consider when they estimate a battle (even alot of experienced level players tend to miscalculate).

To put it simply, if you want to go all speed, you need to make sure you can finish the job, for a cats army, high speed needs to be coupled with high attack for maximum effectiveness and high defense are needed for a cavs army.

Low level players who puts all their stats in Speed will also have a noticeably harder time when attacking forts and oasis. This means the Speedy players require a much larger number of cats to take on the same level fort/oasis compare to another player with high attack. Which means a noticeably slower progress at the beginning as resources will be harder to accumulate.

In conclusion (and to stop this long essay ) Speed is extremely important, but it is certainly not the gospel truth alot of people make them out to be, even at high level, sometimes using resetting Speed to 0 and distribute to other stats may give you the victory against an opponent whom you may otherwise lose to.

So I believe that the best advise is to make informed decisions, understand the consequence and what you're looking to achieve before distributing your attribute points.

P.S. I am not advocating low Speed, Speed is still the most important factor in 90% of the battles between high levels, but when everyone use/has max speed, that's when other setups and tactics needs to be considered.

Good topic, I want to know the example is tested at some level(not exactly the same) or not since I am not sure whether 550 cats can take out 500 cats with high attack once. In this case I will consider other attributes in next PVP

[Backburner]

Yeah the example is for two players with same level (level10) but of course the actual result will vary depends on tech and equipments.

The example is misleading. 80 points in attack is not going to make 100% difference in damage. It will be more like 30 % difference in damage depending on your tech and gear.

Results are more like following:

Player a strike first killed 600

Player b countered and killed 350

Player b attacked killed 350

Player a countered killed 180

Player a has 300 left

Player b has 220 left

Player b will eventually lose

But I think you do make a valid point. Sometime, you can't always be faster than the other guy. Prepare for a dirty fight.

[Backburner]

If a player have nothing in attack, they usually don't even kill 1 cat for every two cats that attacks, but it does depend on alot of variable, a high level equipment or tech could swing the scale right in the other direction.

When someone have 100 attack and similar in equip and tech, they can usually kill 90% of the number of cats they attacked. The case I have put up is very conservative of course, I have used two more accounts with slightly higher level, equip and tech (level 12s) to battle which had a fairly different result.

Player A first strike kills 530, lose 415 to counter
Player B attacks, kills 415, lose 95 to counter

Player A first attack kills 95, Player B counter, kills all Player A.

Player B left with 280 cats, which still held a big advantage over the remaining army.

So yes, just a small amount of tweak will make a huge difference in this sort of close battle. And you can see as the level gets higher the advantage of Speed will be highlighted more and more, however I do believe below level 14 or so, Cats that goes all speed is still at a disadvantage compare to someone who focused on Attack or Def.

If it was up to me, I would go all attack at lower level, reset stats around level 13 and pump army, but then again I do use coins and it is easier for me to keep a larger army with max level equip and tech which takes full advantage of high speed.

Of course there are many more possibilities and combinations, I haven't even factored the odds of double attack into the equation simply because then the winner will simply be whoever gets a lucky double, at the end I am simply trying to point out just because you're faster doesn't necessarily mean you can always win

ive just finished a battle like this with me on max speed and him on equal between attributes, i was atacking him.

i started with 2800 cats him with 2900 cats and i was able to kill all of his with losses of 1400 cats. this was bad as his healing (10%) was very high and the difference in lvl (me-14, him-12)made me only recieve 1.5k prestige, but there it is speed was the thing that made me win, having the first strike gave me the distinct advantage that i needed to win

Shame about no prestige from it

[Backburner]

lol yes, first strike is very important of course, but there are a few more reasons why he lost that fight, level 14 you would have had a bit more stats, tech and equipment than he did, your attack would have been boosted and that's when you see the real advantage of speed, also his stats distribution may have been poor, what I suggest was at low level don't put anything in Speed because it's just wasted points, instead pump all into attack or defense or both.

If you were level 12, with similar level equipment and tech as him, I think the fight would've been alot closer with him having the advantage., as you will most likely able to take out roughly 1500 of his cats with first strike with no attack boost, then his 1400 remaining cats will get 2 consecutive hits on your 2.8k cats, if his attack was high then he can take out close to 2.5k cats, or at least 2k+, which would've swung the battle in his favor.

Again I must stress what I meant at the start was that newbies shouldn't blindly buy into the Speed hype because it could easily lead them into a false sense of superiority. If it's an experienced player who knows what they're doing then of course, put all points into Speed.

ive just finished a battle like this with me on max speed and him on equal between attributes, i was atacking him.

i started with 2800 cats him with 2900 cats and i was able to kill all of his with losses of 1400 cats. this was bad as his healing (10%) was very high and the difference in lvl (me-14, him-12)made me only recieve 1.5k prestige, but there it is speed was the thing that made me win, having the first strike gave me the distinct advantage that i needed to win

Shame about no prestige from it

So let me get this right.....

you attacked 2900 cats, lost HALF of yours, and only got 1.5k prestige out of a possible 29000?

Sorry, but i wouldn't actually call that a victory. In fact, if I was him, I'd be laughing it up in AC about your lack of concern for the welfare of your own troops.


Edit: In other words.....you'd have been better off staying home and building some cats, rather than losing so many, for naught.

@backburner: While I agree with your sentiments, for every hypothetical example you give to support your belief that speed is best, I can give one to show why it's not.

The real point that is important to remember here is when you said that many generals dont understand how their units speed actually works to their advantage or disadvantage.

Its important when having this discussion to remember that as many battles have been won by speed, so have as many battles been won by a superior shooting skill. A strong shooting skill, coupled with the strategic advantages of the catapult (such as its invulnerability when moving backwards) makes for a more devestating unit than a cat with max speed. It just depends on your battlefield tactics.

Of course when running a cav army speed is obviously most important to minimize the casualties they will receive while advancing on the battlefield, but again, it is quite easy to destroy cav armies with an upgraded cat army if you deploy the proper troops and command effectively.

All in all, after having this discussion more times than i ever wished to, I have come to the concrete conclusion that all the attributes of a unit have their own place on the battlefield, and its fairly moot to argue one being superior to the other. In the end, the general who knows how to exploit a units strengths and weaknesses will always win out.

Case in point, Nathans example above.

[Backburner]

Sorry taem I'm not sure I understand completely what you're saying. I believe that Speed is the key for high levels definitely, however at lower level it might not be for everyone.

And yes, every stats and tech have their place on the battlefield for sure, I am merely referring to the fact that so many people jump to tell others that Speed is the best attribute to strengthen, which I believe isn't necessarily the best advise for a new player.