Don't Discard the Lesser Monsters (skills and ability-wise)

Basing from your comment Kaloth I will just stress the following points in connection to our thread:

- your comment,

"the only thing I personally get tired of seeing is two or more flights in a row."

is the Pinnacle of essence for this thread. This means you agree that there is a problem. I guess I can say "I rest my case";

- your comment,

"The lesser monsters served their purpose. Everyone used them as they progressed through the game. If you've been playing the game for several months and don't have any epic S grade monsters with advanced skills you weren't planning very well. If you wasted your breeding cooldown on common monsters don't complain when they get wiped out by epics.

the complaint you are talking about here is pointed out and recognized by a post of a fellow player which I quote:

My original team included Fright, Flight, Pocahoontas, and Flight. I did not care if they were common or uncommon, but wanted to use them because they all could fly and I wanted my team to look cool and have a theme.

I planned to use this team to progress thru the game despite their lower stats and mystery skills. When I learned that only Epic could learn advanced skills, I abandoned these monsters.

Now, my team is Smiter, Cygness, Behemoth etc. surprise, all Epic. All other rarities are pretty much useless.

Just a tale of a player putting his non epic monsters to the side once he realized how huge the disparity is and how useless they are. I'm sure all of you have similar stories

I have commented on such a reasoning before. this thread pretty much does not want the lesser monsters to be just a recipe. Well, its pretty much a user's/player's preference, and I don't want to forcefully convince you or stop you to speak your mind and opinion. But it seems majority of players feel that your point should not be the case.

-your comment,

"There is a ton of different ways you can beat your opponents. Plenty of strategy and diversity. If you're only casting damaging skills then that's the problem. There are around 15 epics now with different strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure more will be released soon. Making lesser monsters more powerful only gives lazy players the ability to beat those who've invested time and money into the game. It doesn't add to any strategy of the game, a water monster is a water monster is a water monster."

You also pointed out that there are only 15 epics in the game so far, and it seems pretty clear to me that you are happy about playing the game revolving and involving only this 15 epic monsters? And you are saying the players who want to dig deeper, allot their precious hatchery and training time to explore the lesser monsters, trying to find, look and discover maybe hidden facets of game play the lazy ones? Seems pretty contradicting for me when I read your comment.

I can say, you would be one of the players which has been mentioned by other posts here like Chezzire's:

I can imagine the problem coming from players who worked hard on their teams composed of epics only to realize rare/uncommon mobs can defeat their monsters now. Personally, it wouldn't be a problem for me. New mechanics will entail new strategy to be formed just like how it works for the weather buffs. But it shouldn't cross the boundary of making epics/legendaries obsolete which requires careful game balance when you have over 100+ monsters to think about. (or maybe around 40 only since we only look at the evolved forms)

Recognizing where you are coming from, I do not intend to again as i said, force you; its your preference. But simply put, it seems to me people who are afraid to get out of their comfort zone are the more lazy ones. You do not need coins to get an Epic Monster, atleast most of them; you just need to get the recipe and pay the synthesis cost. So, most people can do so, and have an epic for themselves if they desire. But why do they not want to? I don't think they are stupid to not know that epics are the best to have. I for one, have epics at S grade. I just choose not to use them, but why am i the author of this thread?

Alas, we are here in this thread to discuss such points of view. and it is up to the Haypi Staff and Developers to consider the pro's and con's of this; not to mention the business decision they have to consider in terms balancing revenue/income and not to drive away players and potential players due to gameplay volatility.

Ill add additional comments when I have the time. this is kinda rough.

I liked this game because i saw that there is depth and gameplay mechanics involved. Its not just simply putting high damage skills and high rate attributes and stats to win and be the best, there is what you call tactics; from the status buffs to the monster abilities. Don't ruin it just for the sake of easy pay-money or whatever your plan is. Think of the long term implication of people wanting to play your game because it is balanced and cool; and they would even pay because its so fun to do so for the sake of the playing the game itself. You will further sustain your business this way.

AMEN! I really like this game and I have been playing almost every single day since I started. What I am noticing is the lack of balance. For example in PVP most of the cpu monsters are way too powerful. I have seen a lineup of a lvl 23 cpu with three felicitys - that's does not seem to be realistic at all (at least on our server I have not seen a lvl 23 using a felicity yet). Getting book chests and breeding are very much unbalanced too. I think if the developers focus on having a balanced game nobody would be complaining as much. We'll enjoy the game, keep playing and keep buying the coins

Your idea about the common/uncommon monsters is awesome. People just keep the common monsters for the daily capture task and for synthesizing rares/epics. Some of the common monsters look great and there should be a better way to use them. Perhaps they can have levels that require a common/uncommon as part of the restriction. Giving them a special skill or talent would make them more desirable. I bet if they put adaptability on a common people would use those.

I love my blocky, crusty and lupa (especially blocky cos it dodges a lot) but now with so many epics being used in the game, I would have to retire them. Theyve had a good run but I too must follow the crowd and start using the epics.

Ladder and pvp tends to be a bit boring sometimes because you see the same monsters being used. In ladder its mostly about having a lineup that would have a better element than your opponent.

What I dont really get is that commons/uncommons in the game are very powerful. The stabbey on Chaotic Swamp is so strong even epic monsters have a hard time killing it. If only the same were true when you actually use them.

Euanenzo I will try and respond to your points as best I can.

- your comment,

"the only thing I personally get tired of seeing is two or more flights in a row."

is the Pinnacle of essence for this thread. This means you agree that there is a problem. I guess I can say "I rest my case";

I don't think that has anything to do it. The fact I don't like seeing a group of flights is more of a personal opinion, with the creation of weather effects those teams have been all but eliminated. I'm also not really talking about the lack of useful monsters or the limit of epics. Rather I don't want common and uncommon monsters to start beating epics. I already concided in another post that I agree I think rare monsters should be given another look. However, there are some rare monsters that actually have higher stats than epics. Giving them the ability to learn advanced skills could lead to some balancing issues. I do think Haypi should look at that. However, I do not think uncommon and common monsters should have any chance of beating epics. They have and do serve their purpose now. They are fodder for your monsters while you level.

I have commented on such a reasoning before. this thread pretty much does not want the lesser monsters to be just a recipe. Well, its pretty much a user's/player's preference, and I don't want to forcefully convince you or stop you to speak your mind and opinion. But it seems majority of players feel that your point should not be the case.

I understand the some players don't want the lesser monsters for recipes. I still think things are fine the way they are. Think about this:

15 Epic Monsters

Each one can have different stats ranging from E- to S
Each one can have probably twenty different skills (more if I count the beginner skills)
Each one has between three and five different talents

Do the math. How many combinations does that give you? Hundreds? Yes, all the Smiters look the same. However, I don't think I've ran into one that's the same as mine. I bred him up to S rank, I've put skills on him that tailor to my playing style, and I've chosen a talent that fits my line up. THERE ARE TONS OF COMBINATIONS!

Recognizing where you are coming from, I do not intend to again as i said, force you; its your preference. But simply put, it seems to me people who are afraid to get out of their comfort zone are the more lazy ones. You do not need coins to get an Epic Monster, atleast most of them; you just need to get the recipe and pay the synthesis cost. So, most people can do so, and have an epic for themselves if they desire. But why do they not want to? I don't think they are stupid to not know that epics are the best to have. I for one, have epics at S grade. I just choose not to use them, but why am i the author of this thread?

Alas, we are here in this thread to discuss such points of view. and it is up to the Haypi Staff and Developers to consider the pro's and con's of this; not to mention the business decision they have to consider in terms balancing revenue/income and not to drive away players and potential players due to gameplay volatility.

Ill add additional comments when I have the time. this is kinda rough.

The fact that I'm out numbered in this thread doesn't really bother me. I still believe things are fine the way they are. Yes, there are some changes that wouldn't hurt (like making rare monsters more useful). I'm still saying common and uncommon monsters are fine the way they are today.

You can say my point of view is lazy but the fact is I've spent a lot of time into this game. Calling me lazy is quite the opposite. The fact I have several S grade epics doesn't mean I've poored cash into the game but rather that I have worked hard to acquire a great team.

Having new monsters introduced doesn't scare me at all. What you and the majority of the people in this thread fail to release is that games have to have progression. You have to give something for players to strive for or the game becomes boring. Giving lesser monsters like Fright the ability to beat epics destorys the game. Why would I put any time into a Rhor if an uncommon monster is just as effective? In fact, I'll spend exactly 5 minutes and get myself a team of Frights. See the problem? In only a few moments you've gathered a great team. Now what? You compete the ladder? PvP? That's about all you can do now.

The simple fact is giving those monsters more strength only breaks the game. Why would Haypi spend all that time and money in developing Epic monsters when they aren't needed?

I understand that you fell in love with Fright (or any uncommon or common monster). I know you want him to be great and to give him awesome talents. No one is stopping you from using him. In fact, make him the best Fright on the server. But don't come on these boards crying when he gets destoryed by any Epic monsters. It's been designed like that from the beginning of the game. There are already HUNDREDS OF COMBOS you can currently have. How much more does Haypi need to add? It's already next to impossible to balance the game now. When they release the next wave of new monsters all these current epics would most likely become useless. It's progression. It keeps you and me interested in the game. I apperciate everyone here stating their opinion and I don't mind debating at all. Hopefully I've made my points a little better.

You're just too stupid to know the difference between giving the Commons and Uncommons the Ability to learn Advanced Skills and, Making the Commons and Uncommons Strong so they can beat the crap out of Epics.

You're just too stupid to know the difference between giving the Commons and Uncommons the Ability to learn Advanced Skills and, Making the Commons and Uncommons Strong so they can beat the crap out of Epics.

If you've played this game at all you know skills make the monster. Giving common and uncommon monsters the advanced skills makes them stronger and with a few misses could easily take down an epic.

As I mentioned earlier by not allowing these monsters to learn these advanced skills Haypi is also saving newer players from accidently putting an advanced skill on a poor monster.

You're just too stupid to know the difference between giving the Commons and Uncommons the Ability to learn Advanced Skills and, Making the Commons and Uncommons Strong so they can beat the crap out of Epics.

If you've played this game at all you know skills make the monster. Giving common and uncommon monsters the advanced skills makes them stronger and with a few misses could easily take down an epic.

As I mentioned earlier by not allowing these monsters to learn these advanced skills Haypi is also saving newer players from accidently putting an advanced skill on a poor monster.

I'm laughing cause those statements above contradict each other. LOL

@ Kaloth

I think you should review and read my comments further. I think I would agree that somewhat you post and comment for a counter rebuttal is off; they might be right that some are pretty contradicting to your point of arguement and some are, it seems you did not very well understand. You can revise or make a new comment.

Anyway, i think i have found a new solution! Or an alternative suggestion!

Why not retain the intermediate skills for all and limit the advanced to legendaries? Or let the epics have just one? I think it pretty much makes us happy? you do not need to worry that i can wipe out your epics using only Cursie cause the intermediate skills was a given aspect since this game begun anyway? Bwahahaha! Then the game can progress by adding other features like the ones already been suggested.


P.S. i edited this post guys and added this p.s. 'cause i think due to the sheer disadvantage of "my lesser monsters" i have been forced to abandon them and also conform to the rest of the simple minded players and play with similar epic monsters in order to not lose my slot in the top ladder. I am now just guessing and expecting when i will lose interest with this game, i think after i see the update until 1.3. Its a make or break for me.

Just popped out of my head, if in case common / uncommon monsters are allowed to learn advance skills..

Monster: Powch
Talent: Inverse
Item: Iron Shield / Winged Boots
Skill: Super Firebomb, Massive Boulder, Aurora Borealis, Heal (Absorption/Soak/Photosynthesis)

Paired to a monster w/ Taunt & Foresight, Powch w/ Inverse would be invinsible.. Basically Powch would just continuously attack and raise his stats at the same time.. Making him a formidable common monster.. Note that Inverse talent only affects the monster that has it.. I dunno if it is also triggered during debuff (Burn/Paralysis) but if so, thats one heck of a common monster..

I still think this is a good idea but I just realized that Haypi beat us to it. Some common, uncommon and rare monsters do have some mean skills/talents that epics do not have.

You have common monsters that are immune to seduction, poison, burn and other debuffs. Cursie is a common monster but it has great mystery talents like detonate, synchronize and mummy. It also has curse which I have seen to be quite useful in 2v2. Meniss also has curse but it gets replaced by another skill at some point. Without cunning and other advanced skills meniss does not seem to be as epic. We all know how difficult it is to get skills these days.

Some rares naturally learn weather skills. Lambush is a non fire monster that can have celestial prayer (sally is an electric that has rain prayer).

Other Talents

underdog power - lupus, octobud
heatproof - lizzie
water therapy - twinkle (only non-water monster that gets healed with rain)
antidote - kernel
force III - funkis
weather lock - antee (I think this is the only monster that has this talent)

With these talents some of the " lesser monsters" can stand a chance with epics. Especially if the epics do not have adv skills. They may not be the best killers but they could be a good part of your defense strategy. If they would lower the cost of breeding commons people may start using them more. For example breeding an A/S common would be 15,000, uncommon 30,000, rare would be 45, and epic stays at 58,000.

The nice thing about HM is that they seem to listen to players' suggestions and it seems like they're really doing their best to have a balanced game. There are bugs, the game lags sometimes but that's just how it is.

Everyone,

I just thought of a way to address probably most concerns with regards to this suggestion just in order to have a more meaningful use for other monsters in the game;

why not make an additional quest or event or however Haypi will put it, that will make a monster from common to rare learn either advanced skills or higher level mystery talents!

The activity:
We may call it, "WAR VETERAN QUEST/PVP EVENT" or whatever they will call it.

The participants: common, uncommon and rare monsters

The award:
Ability to put selected or certain advanced skill(s) or mystery talents

The mechanics:
A monster of the said types will be able to take on a quest to do some tasks and/or battle against a rigorous set of monsters wherein at the end of it all when he is able to complete, surpass and/or beat all opponents, due to the sheer wisdom or experience he gained in the adventure and the battles he is able to learn a higher form of mystery talent or advanced skill(s) or an ability of the same level unique only to it.

- Wisdom maybe in the form of Mystery Talent
- Experience maybe in the form of a Unique Ability equivalent to an advanced skill or simply able to learn selected advanced skills (as may be assigned by Haypi).


The format:
PVP event format or a separate island to enter on, unlocked also via a task (i leave it to Haypi at what level or what criteria), reward collection maybe in the form of the roulette similar at end of a stage in the islands.

They will be up against similar hardened lesser monsters who now are veterans by using advanced skills or have leveled up or epic mystery talent. Or whatever Haypi may set it up.

This quest can be subject to cool downs similar to hatchery and will take time to finish and can be lessened by the use of coins to fast track the progress or whatever Haypi wants. (Or i can just omit this part? )

Hapyi can throw in some storyline if they would like to in connection to the small animation at the start of the game; the trainer/player will help the monster grow/train to become stronger in order to take on the evil or greater oppressors etc. without discrimination of monster rarity.

The premise:
This was conceived in order to address the given concern that a simple and easy to get monster will beat the hard earned and so-much-time-spent epics and/or maybe legendary monsters i think this task will be able to justify that in order for these lesser monsters to have the right to get a new level of power they have also worked hard for it. These gives the player an option to just be Epics users or Lesser users or combination without the prejudice from the shared sentiment above.

I think this will also serve other requests for more things to do in the game because it will be a new thing we can do to make us preoccupied aside from the dailies. I just don't know if they can do this easily. I leave it Haypi to determine the slight balancing issues by selecting applicable skills and talents.

But essentially i think this is a very good idea and is very doable. What do you guys think? Huh?