Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:24 am
Advanced Guide to farming, prestige, and units. Not finished
First of all, let's start with a few formulas you should know:
-Building-Total resource consumption/300*(1-(lvl/30))=prestige per unit built
-battle-If the battle is a clean kill- the winner gains prestige according to the people cost of each unit he killed. (pp=prestige point) So 10pp per catapult, 4pp per cavalry, 2pp per archer, and 1pp per infantry.
-battle-If the battle is NOT a clean kill- the winners losses MINUS (the losers loss TIMES a weight factor). The weight factor for two people in battle of equal level is one, it will never be 0, will increase if the losers level is lower, will increase if the losers level is higher. This prevents lower leveled players from getting comletely destroyed by higher leveled players, considering they actually damage the winner.
-farming-If the attackers attack succeeds, he/she will first take whichever resource is highest FIRST until that resource is even with the second highest, whereas your troops will take both of those resources together until you get to the third highest. Then all three of them until all resources are even numbers. Then, each will decrease until your troops total combined carrying capacity gets to 0. HOWEVER(comma, pause for effect) The person you are farming might have a high cranny. A cranny can protect up to 100k resources in each slot of resources. Now, a persons break cranny skill can get as high as 10 which is 50%. Meaning if a person has a maxed cranny and the person attacking them has a maxed break cranny skill, the lowest you can bring any one of their resource totals to is 49,300.
-Cavalry needed to farm max resources- (449300*4)/100=17972. More often than not, you'll find people with a maxed cranny. So the maximum you can obtain with maxed break cranny (399300*4)/100=15972. Maxed cranny/no break cranny formula (349300*4)/100=13972-Infantry needed to farm max resources- (449300*4)/80=22465. Maxed cranny/break cranny formula... (399300*4)/80=19965. Maxed cranny/no break cranny formula... (349300*4)/80=17465-If the person is inactive, it doesn't matter what you send at them as long as you can take the resources you were hoping to take. Particurally if you know that their defenses are already clear.
-The potential threat range of archers- (125(base archer speed)+marching tech+speed stat+horse+manual(maximum of 343)) + 600(base archer range)+range tech(maximum of 720)=1063
-The potential threat range of catapults- (50(base catapult speed)+marching tech+speed tech+speed stat+horse+manual(maximum of 137)) + 800(base catapult range)+range tech(maximum of 960)=1097
-If a unit with higher speed enters a slower units threat range and they're both in each others threat range, the higher speed will hit first with a counter attack if the other unit lives followed by their attack and then your counter attack if they don't kill you. This means that if your higher speed attack fails, they will get two attacks after your first attack!!!What you want to do, particurally if you have your cities spread out a bit, is have a farming army in each city. Most people will have their troops spread out in between cities so that no cities have too high of a crop negative anyways so make sure each city has a farming army.
-Units get 1% per point in speed for a maximum of 175%-Units get .5% per unit in attack/defense for a maximum of 165%/2
-Minimum speeds-Infantry-150, Cavalry-300, archers-125, catapults-50
-Maximum speed-Infantry-412, Cavalry-825, archers- 343, catapults-137
-Units ranged attacks are reduced close range, shown in the link at the bottom
-The final number in prestige rounds when creating. So if you make just one, the one is rounded up; if you make several, only the last one will round-Stats, at least speed, doesn't round up, but rather, seemingly, down.
-Take horse and manual off and send your slowest unit from the city furthest from the target for the best lockdown.
In your farming army it is a good idea to note that infantry have 150 health, 75 defense, 150 speed, 80 overload, and are worth one prestige/need one crop and cavalry have 500 health, 175 defense, 100 overload, 300 speed, and are worth 4 prestige/need 4 crop a peice. Since cavalry are worth 4 times as much and eat 4 times as much as infantry, lets take 4 infantry to 1 cav and see what we need:
600 health, 300 defense, 600 speed(traps), 320 overload, 4 prestige/crop
500 health, 175 defense, 300 speed(traps), 100 overload, 4 prestige/crop
From the above you can deduct that for a cheap farming army, use more infantry than cavalry. Now cavalry do have uses too as do archers. Do NOT use catapults in a farming army, there's no need. They're too slow. There is no amazing formula for a farming army, but the overload is the exact amount of resources a unit can carry. You will want, at least enough troops to cover the amount of resources you can potentially get. I'll start with infantry. Each infantry can take 80 resources a piece, so if you need 10,000 wood and the person you're farming has no traps/turrets and more iron than anything else, you'll either want 100 cavalry or 125 infantry. Cavalry are faster and infantry are cheaper, it's up to you to decide which one you want to send/have in each city, for farming purposes. Fortified points. Many people use either cavalry or catapults against forts. I recommend using catapults with cavalry and archers for the turrets and infantry for the traps for these.
If the person you are farming/attacking has turrets, this is where archers play in. An archer with maxed speed and range has a threat range of 343(speed) PLUS 720 (max shooting for archers)= 1063. Turrets max range is 1050. Turrets are spread out as anyone that's not new will know, from what I can tell, the first row of turrets is about 200 out (field range being maxed range on the field+range tech+300). This means that the archers may not be able to hit the first row of turrets on their first move turn. This is where cavalry come into play. Cavalry can take turret damage for archers, they have higher health, defense, and really everything except for range. Archers hit on the first move turn and cavalry and archers both hit on move turn two. An infantry/archer is the best setup for taking down turrets in terms of how much prestige you lose for clearing a wall of turrets. Traps too. Technically, there's a way to clear a lv 10 turret wall with no losses, but cough cough. Anyways.
To make the most of your units and to get the most prestige possible, you'll want to aim to use your archers(if you have enough) against catapults, your catapults (on forward) against cavalry(cavalry can't hit a retreating catapult so when the cavalry get close, go in reverse) , cats or cav against archers(if cats move one forward (it's really difficult for an archer army to hit them without getting attacked) (Cavalry can take a lot of damage from archers. In my experience with about 75 attack, it took about 12 archers to kill one)
You can have the "best" setup, heh, and really high numbers, but if your oppponent is smarter and uses troop advantages/disadvantages against you, it is really likely that, at the very least, you'll get no prestige. I've had occasions where my 3.5k cats that i returned from hunt were attacked by 60k+armies and my 3.5k cats took out about 16k cavalry before dying. It's all in the commanding and stat setups. In that battle, I had blockers, traps/turrets, and my cats on forward. I got upwards of 8 attacks on their cavalry, I don't recall getting any double attacks. I've seen catapults take about their own numbers in catapults with high attack. If you have additions in fortune, that's even better. Remember battle goes in order from speed of highest troop to speed of slowest troop regardless of which player has the highest speed. REMEMBER, if you and your opponent are in range of each other and one of you targets the other that is in range, a counter will occur even if you've already attacked with that unit in that turn. EX: your speed is higher and you target their cavalry and their cats target your cats, you will hit their cavalry(if they don't squash you because you're in their threat range), then their cats will hit yours. If your cats survive, they will counter their cats. So you hit, they counter, they hit, then you counter.
Use this information wisely. Every unit has advantages and disadvantages. I'll list some now.
Catapults- Are VERY slow, but also extremely powerful. If you aren't willing to use coins to city drop people, you may not get many hits bc by the time your army gets to the person you're attacking, they'll have made traps, spent resources, and hunted troops. You can however use them to do high damage to any unit. Their low speed can also be an advantage against those players that like to move their cities to make up for their slow attacks. You take off your horse and manual, then send 1 cat against the city that you suspect to have troops in it. Make sure you send from the city that is furthest from them. Even if it is just a temporary lock until you can get an ally or friend to send a longer lockdown. There is a strategy where you leave a decent bit of troops out and act like you're inactive, leave them out for a while. Make sure you have a trap in each row so that their cavalry can't double attack to clear two rows of turrets. If you keep one of each troop in each city at all times along with a trap in each row, you can effectively keep cavalry armies at bay to a point to at the very least, they will get no prestige.
Cavalry- Are EXTREMELY fast, strong, healthy, and defenseful. They are remarkably good at taking out turrets and moving across a majority of a field in one turn. They aren't the best for turrets though if you are attacking someone, but they are very fast. It will take many infantry and archers to put a dent in them and even catapults can have trouble if not properly equipped and have blockers to deal with cavalry. They have the highest speed, highest defense, highest health, and highest overload of any other unit. Since they will most likely move before any other unit, after you move to take out a unit, any other units that you happen to move into the move range of will run into your high health and defense. Meaning that if you charge into infantry, their archers might run into you!!! Ranged units do less damage when in close quarters. This will mean that their catapults are next if you already found a way to clear their cavalry with your catapults.
Infantry- are so cheap, you can almost completely overrun someone with a ton of these...aka...fortified points can require a ton of cats or cavalry or archers, if you choose them, especially if you have low attack, speed, or range. Defense will control losses of cavalry mainly, if used as an attacking force. According to the chart at the bottom, infantry get 33% defense against archers, a +50% attack on cavalry, and a +20% attack on catapults. They will likely never hit cavalry or catapults and even if they do a 50% addition to 75 is only 37.5...against both of them having obnoxiously high health, defense, and attack. The infantry will get attacked an insane number of times before reaching catapults and will get hit first by cavalry unless the infantry have maxed speed and the cavalry have low speed. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE INFANTRY!!!!! They are only worth one crop/prestige point. With this in mind, by the time you match 4 infantry to a cavalry or 10 infs to a catapult, the infantry will win!!! Crop for crop, INFANTRY HAVE THE BEST STATS.[color=#BFFF00]Infantry take the least amount of time to make so if you QUICKLY need a lockdown and have no troops in the cities that are away from the target, you can make 1 infantry and send that, while that is being sent/in the process of being made, make 1 cat in another city and begin taking off your horse and manual to lower speed.[/color]
Archers- These units are extremely weak, no defense, small health, extremely low carrying capacity, not even worth much prestige, SECOND highest range, etc. So why use them right? LOL. You're missing out!!! As stated before their threat range with their speed and range is close to that of catapults, but archers are faster so even if during their movement the catapults have the range to hit them, they don't have the speed to! Also, guess what... 60(archer attack)+5=300(catapult attack). Catapult hunger=10 per cat divided by 5 is 2(archer hunger). So crop for crop, archers and catapults have the same attack. NOW, archers are fairly useless against infantry and cavalry...Cavalry because of their really high defense and health, it would take about 3 just to overcome the cavalrys defense and an additional 9 to overcome thier health. Now for infantry...it would take 2 archers to overcome their defense and 3 to overcome their health, BUT infantry take 33% less damage from archers. :O I've already spoken about an archers advantage against turrets even though all ranged units take penalties against turrets. At least according to this chart...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=37
For any questions on prestige per unit per level, I posted this somewhere else:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=539&p=72635#p72635
Inf: atk-7500, def-7500, carry-8000, spd-150, HP-22500
Cav: atk-4375, def-4375, carry-2500, spd-300, HP-16875
Arc: atk-3000, def-1250, carry-2000, spd-125, HP-7500
Cat: atk-3000, def-1000, carry-400, spd-50, HP-5500
What I have here is 100 crops worth of inf, cav, arch, and cat. Notice that when lined up crop for crop, cavalry are weaker than infantry and cats have lower in everything except range and an equal attack. The advantage to cats is range and the advantage to cav is speed and overload(for their crop though, infantry are much better). For instance, can you imagine a cavs stats divided by 4? (except its range and speed) or maybe a cat divided by 5 to compare to archers? (matching crop consumption)
I hope this is useful to someone. Since my post is so long, it's likely I left something out. Don't be mad, just post what I missed and i'll add it in. That simple.
-Building-Total resource consumption/300*(1-(lvl/30))=prestige per unit built
-battle-If the battle is a clean kill- the winner gains prestige according to the people cost of each unit he killed. (pp=prestige point) So 10pp per catapult, 4pp per cavalry, 2pp per archer, and 1pp per infantry.
-battle-If the battle is NOT a clean kill- the winners losses MINUS (the losers loss TIMES a weight factor). The weight factor for two people in battle of equal level is one, it will never be 0, will increase if the losers level is lower, will increase if the losers level is higher. This prevents lower leveled players from getting comletely destroyed by higher leveled players, considering they actually damage the winner.
-farming-If the attackers attack succeeds, he/she will first take whichever resource is highest FIRST until that resource is even with the second highest, whereas your troops will take both of those resources together until you get to the third highest. Then all three of them until all resources are even numbers. Then, each will decrease until your troops total combined carrying capacity gets to 0. HOWEVER(comma, pause for effect) The person you are farming might have a high cranny. A cranny can protect up to 100k resources in each slot of resources. Now, a persons break cranny skill can get as high as 10 which is 50%. Meaning if a person has a maxed cranny and the person attacking them has a maxed break cranny skill, the lowest you can bring any one of their resource totals to is 49,300.
-Cavalry needed to farm max resources- (449300*4)/100=17972. More often than not, you'll find people with a maxed cranny. So the maximum you can obtain with maxed break cranny (399300*4)/100=15972. Maxed cranny/no break cranny formula (349300*4)/100=13972-Infantry needed to farm max resources- (449300*4)/80=22465. Maxed cranny/break cranny formula... (399300*4)/80=19965. Maxed cranny/no break cranny formula... (349300*4)/80=17465-If the person is inactive, it doesn't matter what you send at them as long as you can take the resources you were hoping to take. Particurally if you know that their defenses are already clear.
-The potential threat range of archers- (125(base archer speed)+marching tech+speed stat+horse+manual(maximum of 343)) + 600(base archer range)+range tech(maximum of 720)=1063
-The potential threat range of catapults- (50(base catapult speed)+marching tech+speed tech+speed stat+horse+manual(maximum of 137)) + 800(base catapult range)+range tech(maximum of 960)=1097
-If a unit with higher speed enters a slower units threat range and they're both in each others threat range, the higher speed will hit first with a counter attack if the other unit lives followed by their attack and then your counter attack if they don't kill you. This means that if your higher speed attack fails, they will get two attacks after your first attack!!!What you want to do, particurally if you have your cities spread out a bit, is have a farming army in each city. Most people will have their troops spread out in between cities so that no cities have too high of a crop negative anyways so make sure each city has a farming army.
-Units get 1% per point in speed for a maximum of 175%-Units get .5% per unit in attack/defense for a maximum of 165%/2
-Minimum speeds-Infantry-150, Cavalry-300, archers-125, catapults-50
-Maximum speed-Infantry-412, Cavalry-825, archers- 343, catapults-137
-Units ranged attacks are reduced close range, shown in the link at the bottom
-The final number in prestige rounds when creating. So if you make just one, the one is rounded up; if you make several, only the last one will round-Stats, at least speed, doesn't round up, but rather, seemingly, down.
-Take horse and manual off and send your slowest unit from the city furthest from the target for the best lockdown.
In your farming army it is a good idea to note that infantry have 150 health, 75 defense, 150 speed, 80 overload, and are worth one prestige/need one crop and cavalry have 500 health, 175 defense, 100 overload, 300 speed, and are worth 4 prestige/need 4 crop a peice. Since cavalry are worth 4 times as much and eat 4 times as much as infantry, lets take 4 infantry to 1 cav and see what we need:
600 health, 300 defense, 600 speed(traps), 320 overload, 4 prestige/crop
500 health, 175 defense, 300 speed(traps), 100 overload, 4 prestige/crop
From the above you can deduct that for a cheap farming army, use more infantry than cavalry. Now cavalry do have uses too as do archers. Do NOT use catapults in a farming army, there's no need. They're too slow. There is no amazing formula for a farming army, but the overload is the exact amount of resources a unit can carry. You will want, at least enough troops to cover the amount of resources you can potentially get. I'll start with infantry. Each infantry can take 80 resources a piece, so if you need 10,000 wood and the person you're farming has no traps/turrets and more iron than anything else, you'll either want 100 cavalry or 125 infantry. Cavalry are faster and infantry are cheaper, it's up to you to decide which one you want to send/have in each city, for farming purposes. Fortified points. Many people use either cavalry or catapults against forts. I recommend using catapults with cavalry and archers for the turrets and infantry for the traps for these.
If the person you are farming/attacking has turrets, this is where archers play in. An archer with maxed speed and range has a threat range of 343(speed) PLUS 720 (max shooting for archers)= 1063. Turrets max range is 1050. Turrets are spread out as anyone that's not new will know, from what I can tell, the first row of turrets is about 200 out (field range being maxed range on the field+range tech+300). This means that the archers may not be able to hit the first row of turrets on their first move turn. This is where cavalry come into play. Cavalry can take turret damage for archers, they have higher health, defense, and really everything except for range. Archers hit on the first move turn and cavalry and archers both hit on move turn two. An infantry/archer is the best setup for taking down turrets in terms of how much prestige you lose for clearing a wall of turrets. Traps too. Technically, there's a way to clear a lv 10 turret wall with no losses, but cough cough. Anyways.
To make the most of your units and to get the most prestige possible, you'll want to aim to use your archers(if you have enough) against catapults, your catapults (on forward) against cavalry(cavalry can't hit a retreating catapult so when the cavalry get close, go in reverse) , cats or cav against archers(if cats move one forward (it's really difficult for an archer army to hit them without getting attacked) (Cavalry can take a lot of damage from archers. In my experience with about 75 attack, it took about 12 archers to kill one)
You can have the "best" setup, heh, and really high numbers, but if your oppponent is smarter and uses troop advantages/disadvantages against you, it is really likely that, at the very least, you'll get no prestige. I've had occasions where my 3.5k cats that i returned from hunt were attacked by 60k+armies and my 3.5k cats took out about 16k cavalry before dying. It's all in the commanding and stat setups. In that battle, I had blockers, traps/turrets, and my cats on forward. I got upwards of 8 attacks on their cavalry, I don't recall getting any double attacks. I've seen catapults take about their own numbers in catapults with high attack. If you have additions in fortune, that's even better. Remember battle goes in order from speed of highest troop to speed of slowest troop regardless of which player has the highest speed. REMEMBER, if you and your opponent are in range of each other and one of you targets the other that is in range, a counter will occur even if you've already attacked with that unit in that turn. EX: your speed is higher and you target their cavalry and their cats target your cats, you will hit their cavalry(if they don't squash you because you're in their threat range), then their cats will hit yours. If your cats survive, they will counter their cats. So you hit, they counter, they hit, then you counter.
Use this information wisely. Every unit has advantages and disadvantages. I'll list some now.
Catapults- Are VERY slow, but also extremely powerful. If you aren't willing to use coins to city drop people, you may not get many hits bc by the time your army gets to the person you're attacking, they'll have made traps, spent resources, and hunted troops. You can however use them to do high damage to any unit. Their low speed can also be an advantage against those players that like to move their cities to make up for their slow attacks. You take off your horse and manual, then send 1 cat against the city that you suspect to have troops in it. Make sure you send from the city that is furthest from them. Even if it is just a temporary lock until you can get an ally or friend to send a longer lockdown. There is a strategy where you leave a decent bit of troops out and act like you're inactive, leave them out for a while. Make sure you have a trap in each row so that their cavalry can't double attack to clear two rows of turrets. If you keep one of each troop in each city at all times along with a trap in each row, you can effectively keep cavalry armies at bay to a point to at the very least, they will get no prestige.
Cavalry- Are EXTREMELY fast, strong, healthy, and defenseful. They are remarkably good at taking out turrets and moving across a majority of a field in one turn. They aren't the best for turrets though if you are attacking someone, but they are very fast. It will take many infantry and archers to put a dent in them and even catapults can have trouble if not properly equipped and have blockers to deal with cavalry. They have the highest speed, highest defense, highest health, and highest overload of any other unit. Since they will most likely move before any other unit, after you move to take out a unit, any other units that you happen to move into the move range of will run into your high health and defense. Meaning that if you charge into infantry, their archers might run into you!!! Ranged units do less damage when in close quarters. This will mean that their catapults are next if you already found a way to clear their cavalry with your catapults.
Infantry- are so cheap, you can almost completely overrun someone with a ton of these...aka...fortified points can require a ton of cats or cavalry or archers, if you choose them, especially if you have low attack, speed, or range. Defense will control losses of cavalry mainly, if used as an attacking force. According to the chart at the bottom, infantry get 33% defense against archers, a +50% attack on cavalry, and a +20% attack on catapults. They will likely never hit cavalry or catapults and even if they do a 50% addition to 75 is only 37.5...against both of them having obnoxiously high health, defense, and attack. The infantry will get attacked an insane number of times before reaching catapults and will get hit first by cavalry unless the infantry have maxed speed and the cavalry have low speed. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE INFANTRY!!!!! They are only worth one crop/prestige point. With this in mind, by the time you match 4 infantry to a cavalry or 10 infs to a catapult, the infantry will win!!! Crop for crop, INFANTRY HAVE THE BEST STATS.[color=#BFFF00]Infantry take the least amount of time to make so if you QUICKLY need a lockdown and have no troops in the cities that are away from the target, you can make 1 infantry and send that, while that is being sent/in the process of being made, make 1 cat in another city and begin taking off your horse and manual to lower speed.[/color]
Archers- These units are extremely weak, no defense, small health, extremely low carrying capacity, not even worth much prestige, SECOND highest range, etc. So why use them right? LOL. You're missing out!!! As stated before their threat range with their speed and range is close to that of catapults, but archers are faster so even if during their movement the catapults have the range to hit them, they don't have the speed to! Also, guess what... 60(archer attack)+5=300(catapult attack). Catapult hunger=10 per cat divided by 5 is 2(archer hunger). So crop for crop, archers and catapults have the same attack. NOW, archers are fairly useless against infantry and cavalry...Cavalry because of their really high defense and health, it would take about 3 just to overcome the cavalrys defense and an additional 9 to overcome thier health. Now for infantry...it would take 2 archers to overcome their defense and 3 to overcome their health, BUT infantry take 33% less damage from archers. :O I've already spoken about an archers advantage against turrets even though all ranged units take penalties against turrets. At least according to this chart...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=37
For any questions on prestige per unit per level, I posted this somewhere else:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=539&p=72635#p72635
Inf: atk-7500, def-7500, carry-8000, spd-150, HP-22500
Cav: atk-4375, def-4375, carry-2500, spd-300, HP-16875
Arc: atk-3000, def-1250, carry-2000, spd-125, HP-7500
Cat: atk-3000, def-1000, carry-400, spd-50, HP-5500
What I have here is 100 crops worth of inf, cav, arch, and cat. Notice that when lined up crop for crop, cavalry are weaker than infantry and cats have lower in everything except range and an equal attack. The advantage to cats is range and the advantage to cav is speed and overload(for their crop though, infantry are much better). For instance, can you imagine a cavs stats divided by 4? (except its range and speed) or maybe a cat divided by 5 to compare to archers? (matching crop consumption)
I hope this is useful to someone. Since my post is so long, it's likely I left something out. Don't be mad, just post what I missed and i'll add it in. That simple.
Last edited by Erraven on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
The well bred contradict other people. The wise contradict themselves~Wilde
People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character~Emerson
RAGNAROK_5 S102
Advanced Guide
Prestige Chart
Crops/Scouting
People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character~Emerson
RAGNAROK_5 S102
Advanced Guide
Prestige Chart
Crops/Scouting
